Community Proposals

Hi,

This post is already out of date – we’ve announced our decision regarding Troop Forwarding and Merging here

While I’ve collected your arguments last week, today I’ll write you about potential adjustments, we could do to address the concerns of our community. We want to find a solution in which we can release a feature which changes Travian strategies a bit, while keeping a balance for our game.

So what suggestions did we’ve got from you? A short overview:

  • Time-Delay for merging troops
  • Merging costs Gold and Resources
  • Limit the daily amount of troops to be merged
  • Don’t merge catapults/rams at all
  • Allow merging only to a defined army size

With that overview I must say that unfortunately I’m not able to address every suggestion. I’ve picked these, to have different approaches, and not to discuss too many details (yet).

Time-Delay for merging troops

One potential change would be to define a waiting period in which the troops merge into the new village. While that time the troops would still be bound to their original home village, so that if the origin village is destroyed the troops just disappear. If it’s just a plain 24h waiting period or dependent on the amount of troops is up for discussion. With this approach only one batch of troops can be merged at once of course.

This would address some concerns, e.g. it would address the “surprise hammers”. It wouldn’t address the “too big World Wonder Killer” concern, as still many troops could be merged together. It would make it a bit more complex, but it wouldn’t stop it effectively.

Merging costs Gold and Resources

There is the possibility to remove the “No, I don’t pay resources, I pay gold” option, and replace it with an “It costs resources and gold”-option. As the player has to pay resources and gold, we would lower the amount gold it costs. That way the advantage of gold payers would decrease, as they still need to pay resources.
Still there is the opinion that players, esp. top farmer or players who receive a resource push from their alliance, are able to form way bigger hammers as they should be. Also it would always require gold, which punishes players which want to play without gold completely. At least we have the silver to gold exchange so that such players are not banned from this feature completely.

Limit the daily amount of troops to be merged

Let’s pretend there is an account wide contingent, how many troops can be merged, and this contingent is increased by e.g. 600 per day. Every troop merged would remove its supply cost from the contingent. Once the contingent reaches zero, this player would be unable to merge more troops, until the contingent would be increased again by the daily production.

This would be pretty fair, as it limits all the “rich player could”-arguments. Also it blocks “too big World Wonder Killer”… there is the potential that players use there server contingent once, so we need to make sure that the limit is not too big.

This approach could also be combined with the time delay or the changed resources and gold costs, already mentioned above.

Don’t merge catapults/rams at all

We already limit settlers and chiefs, so that they cannot be merged at all. We could extend that to rams and catapults as well. With that only a usual amount of catapults can be produced, but still more troops could be added to an existing hammer.

This would approach the “too big World Wonder Killer” concern a bit, as there will no >90k catapult-hammers. Other than that this change wouldn’t change much.

Allow merging only to a defined army size

This approach would limit the merge of an army based on the current army of the new home village. Once the target village has a crop consumption of e.g. 50.000 crop no merge is possible anymore.

This would force players who want to save their big hammer to split it to multiple locations. It would only allow for small surprise hammers. There would be no way to build up a huge Wonder of the World Killer with such a limitation. This one seems to solve the most concerns, so it is my favorite, despite its “just” adding a new limit.

Conclusion

I hope I could name some potential improvements, which would address the concerns the community has raised. What do you think about this? I want to hear your input.

Thank you for your dedication and patience.

20 Comments on “Community Proposals

  1. You forgot the “Do not make these changes at all” that i recon most of us have suggested 🙂

  2. Hi
    I am for the following combination:
    Allow merging only to a defined army size + Time-Delay for merging troops + some kind of visible symbol once the merge starts
    Why symbol? … to inform colleagues and enemies what is going on, so they have the chance to defend / attack and destroy the village of the player merging troops. It would increase activity and chances for all parts, making the game more interesting, and also give a chance to enemies to destroy the villages & hammer during the delay.

  3. Removing siege from the equation will remove all potential fun aka new strategies. You may just allow speed up troops building for gold, will be almost the same result.
    Making both, resources and gold, mandatory part of a merge makes it too complicated in my view and does not do much good.
    The rest can be discussed.

    Also, changes encourage multiing, purchasing of resources etc. Are you prepare to address that issue?

  4. “Time delay”
    This is an interesting idea that could be helpful; however, there is a good bit of (mostly) harmless fun in merging in 10,000 Keulenscwhingers just to raid someone’s cluster at close range or attempt to catch their hammer at home. I don’t know if this would be the best option.

    “Time delay for merging troops”
    This could be neat, but Travian is a beautiful game of ratios. Do not dilute that beauty with arbitrary values such as 24 hours. Set it to a ratio of the distance from the village you are merging from. Maybe any merging will take the travel time (at something slow like maybe that race’s catapult speed) from the previous home village of the troops to the new home village.

    “Limit the daily amount to be merged”
    Same as above, don’t get arbitrary numbers messing things up. Set it to something like 75% of your total population. So if you have 1000 pop, you can only merge 750 troops daily. That’s rough numbers, but hopefully you get my point.

    “Merging gold costs and resources”‘
    Very interesting idea! Love this. It would make both sides have to put some skin in the game to merge; however, doing this might require paying for the merge in the original home village as you send the troops. Maybe create a new “merge” button, and in order to confirm the resources are spent on confirmation (and then they send off, only to automatically merge upon arrival).

    “Don’t merge catapults at all”
    You won’t let WW’s go away, but you guys need to understand that no one wants to play WW servers — so stop planning your changes based on concerns over WW fights. With that in mind, the no merging catapults makes a huge difference in the main concern with merging: surprise hammers. They are devastating. I cannot stress this enough. I say this as someone that used it and never had it used on me.

    “Allow defined army size”
    This would not stop the surprise hammer problem. And I don’t think the WW hammer problem should be focused on. Either your game will be gone in a few years because you don’t remove WWs, or you remove them and we never need a policy in place to deal with abuse of them. So if we’re not stopping the gold problem, not stopping the surprise hammer problem, and we’re only focusing on the WW problem we’re going to get to exactly where you put us when you came out with T4 (more of the same) and we’ll get bored and leave.

    You guys struck gold with Scattered Empires. PEOPLE WILL COME BACK FOR THIS GAME. Don’t change it too much. Just get rid of the surprise hammers and we’ll gladly keep shoveling cash your way.

    • ““Don’t merge catapults at all”
      You won’t let WW’s go away, but you guys need to understand that no one wants to play WW servers — so stop planning your changes based on concerns over WW fights. With that in mind, the no merging catapults makes a huge difference in the main concern with merging: surprise hammers. They are devastating. I cannot stress this enough. I say this as someone that used it and never had it used on me.”

      LoL you’re not a Travian Legends player as it seems here, you come from the Travian Emipire where there is no WW !

      “You guys struck gold with Scattered Empires. PEOPLE WILL COME BACK FOR THIS GAME. Don’t change it too much. Just get rid of the surprise hammers and we’ll gladly keep shoveling cash your way.”

      The entire discussion here is about Travian Legends implementing changes that you already have in Travian Empire !

      In Travian Legends the server itself ends with someone making a WW lvl 100 !

      Anyways, once these things will be implemented me and my team (Dacia Finals WW winners !) we won’t play this game anymore so go ahead Travian GMBH and do whatever you want with our traditional Travian ! since it seems that whatever our ideas of Travian are you still WANT to implement these new features into the game, based on another game experiment and because of the GOLD greed of the Company !

  5. I can see troop RELOCATION working as long as it’s time-delayed and can’t be instant completed. But merging? No, just no. Completely destroys the game no matter what you do.

  6. Hey there Jake ,
    Not we are speaking the same language !

    Time-Delay for merging troops: Merging to be possible within 20 fields distance from the origin village and if somebody is willing to arrive with the news village from 100 100 to -100 0 well it will cost him around :

    100 fields / 20 = 5
    so he needs 5 new villages and 5 time gold + resources + let’s say i will be a time delay 24H so nobody will arrive from point A to point B by the night.And of course it will cost him a lot!

    Merging costs both Gold and Resources : agree!
    Don’t merge catapults/rams at all : agree!

    Limit the daily amount of troops to be merged: here i did not understand correctly if the contingent is increased by e.g. 600 per day in each village or for the entire account. Anyways i see two “scenarios” here:

    1. If the limitation is applied to villages then will be a marathon to create villages like 40 villages x 600 daily troops/village you can merge like 24.000 troops daily. In like 50 days is possible to merge around 50×24.000 which is near to 1 million troops. Way too much.
    2. If this limitation is set on the account instead of the village it means that for the same 50 days period you can merge up to 24.000 troops which is a very low quantity. Anyway this can be a good option by setting a proper value.

    Allow merging only to a defined army size: well this indeed is a good option. Predictable but good.

    Overall: with 4 simple limitation the game can become interesting.

    1. limit the merge troops within 20 fields from the origin village and with the costs of both resources and gold. ( no hammer surprise concern)
    2. 24h merge delay time. (hammers cannot be moved forever , big army’s can still be conquered or destroyed)
    3. no catapult/ram can be merged in any way. (this feature will keep the interest for artifacts at a high level )
    4. Allow merging only to a defined army size e.g 100.000 crop consumption after is no longer possible

    These should solve most of the concerns people have 🙂

    I hope it helped in someway my opinion.
    Thanks

  7. Hammers can be moved and surprise players.
    – Time-Delay for merging troops
    How does it work? I send my troops that I want to merge to the new village. After they arrived I hit a button to merge them. Up to now I can’t use my troops for 24 hours in any way? They are stationed in the new village, eating crop? Can’t raid, can’t dodge?

    -> Merging
    I don’t know why but to me it sounds more like increase an already available hammer. So actually in my way of thinking it is completely strange to “merge” troops into empty village. 🙂

    Hammers and World Wonder Killers can grow too big.
    – Limit the daily amount of troops to be merged
    I liked the feature of merging because of possibility to recover lost hammer. By limiting it to amount of troops per day, this possibility is much less than before. Sure it prevents to grow endless big hammers, but in my view it is neither one thing nor another. Endless big hammer is issue because of several points like no limit by resource, free use of as many gold as I like, already said by several people. Maybe bound merging to size of the account / resource production and current crop consumption by available troops?
    – Don’t merge catapults/rams at all
    This removes a lot of options. Water merging feature down for legends server?
    – Allow merging only to a defined army size
    Seems not bad for first thought.

    The gold-spending-gap will increase heavily.
    – Merging costs Gold and Resources
    This doesn’t touch the origin of concerns. Still, those who want to grow big hammer are able to do so. Just set up enough people to feed offense player with resource.
    Buying resources with gold is problem, because it is unlimited. Gold should expand potential, not impose unique potential to one who has it.

    Remember your points why you made that feature: Hit hard, strengthen offense players to head forwarding feature, make offense players focus on more than a few villages and make it possible to save troops.
    What will be left after screening points above? Implement it for?

  8. Just make it

    MERGING WITH RESOURCES ONLY !!!

    Even alliance push won’t help it much 😉

  9. As numerous people have said on the forums, and in private across skype, this is a bad idea. Yet you continue to press forward with it anyway.

    A few years back you asked us to submit ideas for a birthday server. It turned out that you already had most of the changes lined up, so actual user suggestion were not added. In the following years Travian has not implemented most of the changes suggested by forum users. And Travian servers continue to drop in numbers.

    This change, particularly with your refusal to acknowledge a clear dislike of troop merging, will cause more people to leave. This is sad, because I genuinely like the game and want to see it do well. But calling us a community, whilst ignoring us and continuing on the same path with alterations irks normal people that won’t take the time to come on here.

    If you really want a dialogue over changes, I invite you to email myself, and leaders of other alliances, that server after server bring on players new to your game, and encourage them to continue with the game. We could have a skype meeting, regarding changes that most people are agreed upon, and move in a direction that your community truly wants.

  10. I think I could completely agree with this last post by Hank “You guys struck gold with Scattered Empires. PEOPLE WILL COME BACK FOR THIS GAME. Don’t change it too much. Just get rid of the surprise hammers and we’ll gladly keep shoveling cash your way.”

    While I personally really enjoy the Wonder race/build I have seen how on most servers the low player base makes the Wonder build a gruesome task and not many people ever voluntarily are a sitter or hold a wonder again once they do it even one time.

    The reason I wanted to play Scattered Empires was because of how much I enjoyed the 10th anniversary birthday server with the regions and the shared usage of artis – for all size of players in an alliance. The new concept of VP seemed to keep more people actively working together all the way through the server and it I found it a really refreshing change not to have the Wonder race as a factor in building the account.

    However, merging and cauldron on Scattered Empires brought the surprise hammers which we were the “lucky” recipient of. I was fortunate to have an incredible active dual and an amazing defense coordinator/team in our alliance but eventually we couldn’t invest the nearly constant 24/7 amount of time needed to stay alive or the gold to continually rebuild.

    While I thought the forwarding function for defense was very useful but if keeping the power balanced for defenders/attackers means eliminating both forwarding and merging then that would be my suggestion. It is my viewpoint that merging tilts the game seriously in favour of those who can spend a lot of gold and drives the more casual either time/gold user to other ways to spend their leisure time.

    What is the driving factor for implementing the merge feature?

    And Thank you for creating a spot for people to share their views.

  11. Jake (Are we still talking to Jake? Because different name is under the posts. Does not matter but….. ),

    I respect your effort and ability to turn chaotic near revolt situation into negotiations mode. However, I think you are putting your carriage in front of your horse and want to roll back a little.

    You introduced the changes for both versions, Regular Legends and SE. These are two different game. The changes that are tolerable or even attractive for one can be disastrous for another. At the moment you have noticeable division in your remaining players base (I’m not talking about attracting new players – this is totally different topic): One group has mastered their skills in current environment and enjoying polishing little details and happy to fight with the similar-minded opponent. The second group also mastered their skill to certain degree but has no interest in polishing details, we (as I belong to the second one) prefer to see something changed so we can explore it and make the first draft of new strategies. First group, as I see it, significantly overlaps with people who want to play in WW environment and the second overlaps with people who hate end game as it’s now.

    If you follow the wish of first group you are likely to lose majority of the second and vise versa. Currently on every domain most of the servers are half dead. I see no reason why you can’t run 2 different version of the game – just replace half of the servers with SE. Proposed changes should be also adjusted based on version.

    And last but not least – run a test server for goodness sake. Create some sort of accelerated aging environment if current length seems too long, offer some free gold to play and tune up the adjustments as it goes ( I mean you can’t pull limitation numbers out of thin air). I don’t think SE needs a test server, first we already spilled some blood and money over it and second…. well we can go without test server, that’s what we like, to some extend at least (no bugs would be awesome though, I still want free gold if you want us to test bugs). More conservative people must have test server, they don’t like to go unbeaten path without a scratch of a map even.

  12. The merge troops feature will be exploited. If you use it, there is no way around that fact, and it doesn’t matter how much gold, resources, or what combination of the two you charge. I will say again that I feel it is a bad idea, and is too big a change to the game.

    However, if you add strict limits to the number of troops which can be merged (whether by the day, the size of the village you are merging troops into, or whatever), if you exclude siege from the merge feature, and if you make the cost of merging troops both gold and resources (with an option to pay the full amount in a much larger amount of resources), then it might at least be playable.

    One suggestion I would make is to require that in order to merge troops into a village, it have to have a higher population than the village the troops were trained in, would have to have the troops researched in the new village, and would merge not at once but over a time period of like 30% of the time it would take to train them in the village you are merging them into (separate from the barracks and stable). This would eliminate the scenario in which a village can be settled and golded up overnight, and then an overpowering army merged into it before the village is even 12 hours old.

    Another possibility would be to require that a village be a certain age before troops can be merged into it.

  13. Hi.

    It is better if you do NOT introduce the Troop Merging feature and just let the game be like it is. A majority of the veteran players do not like this idea at all and these people make the majority of your active player base, so please keep that in mind.

    Regards.

  14. These new changes are not really what the game needs. Merging troops will make even more ppl quit than the implementation of T4 with auctions and hero change from the classic 3.6 gameplay. Most of the new changes seem to me to have been made based on forum users who have very different views of the game than those actually playing the game on a high lvl.

    Most of us want chages sure. But trav games a plea: Don’t destroy the game in the process of drawing new players. Servers are driven by experienced players not noobs spamming forums.

    So listen to us if you choose to have a user based change process and please do not keep trolling changes that high lvl players do not want 🙁

    Lastly I have been playing this game a decade and these changes if forced into game will result in mass quitting as when t4 was made. This game needs life not death and broken changes

    Thank you

  15. Over the last few years, it has become apparent that Travian are failing to keep their players interested and therefore have seen a fall in their income through declining gold sales. It is obvious that many additions to the game have purely been introduced to try and encourage us to spend more money; hero items, name changes etc to name but a few. These changes didn’t impact on the way that the game is played, troop merging will and will see an even larger exodus from Travian and will surely spell the end of a game that has been struggling for many years.
    Despite assurances that our concerns are being listened to, they aren’t and the attitude of the developers is awful. Why introduce something without testing it? Why interfere with a game that works? Why bring features from TK to TL – they are entirely different games!

  16. You do not hear people in general, I am opposed to any of the above combinations.
    If you want to restore the activity of the game, you have to reduce the time of construction of catapults \ rams, or come up with a new helmet hero who will work on a workshop, it will increase the chances of building a large WW hammers, and increase the chances of destroying wonder of the world.
    Remove sending limit only four waves per second.
    Make a fake attack cheaper, but not as it is now 19 + 1 20lvl rally point, return the fake attack by 1 unit
    Remove def bonus hero to all troops the account, which are reinforcements, together with the hero
    You need money? OK, enter the reduction in speed of construction units by 20% for 10 Gold per week, we will pay you, do bonus to attack or to defend the hero for the same 10 Gold, we will pay
    These small changes make it possible to put aside the game off, and the freedom to add, without changing cardinally strategy
    You are killing action game from version t4.0 now you want to kill it completely?
    I love this game and I play since 2009, I’m the head of one of the alliances RU-TEAM, and was just the author of the greatest of WW hammer 19K catapult at the last championship (example, on which you relied in the first blog). but if such disastrous changes will come into force, I will go out of the game, gone my friends, and, in the end, you will play with yourself

    with respect, Natalia

  17. Hi everyone!

    It is some time now since new feature was first introduced. There has been manny different reactions to it, some good, some bad. I tried to check as manny comments as possible, have talked to manny friends about it. And now I would like to tell some of the concerns (which despite community proposal stil remains). Firstly I would like to tell it means a lot to me that developpers do ask us about opinions and possible improvements. I know this is not their job, and they could just make some changes as they wish. So I really apreciate this. But eventhough I feel like they are still going only in 1 direction – which is The alchemist’s cauldron. I have already told what I think about this version. It is simple – I don’t like it. I don’t like the concept of it. But yes I understand that change is only guaranteed scenario everywhere, I know that everything needs to evolve. How would people exist without evolution? So I understand why they want to make changes, they want to improve the game, lurge in more players and make it more interesting. However I still have some major concerns which I am gonna talk about in this post. I have tried to find some solutions and suggestions too. So let me begin.

    [B]1) Low Deffense[/B]
    I am playing this game for a very long time, have played manny different servers, with manny different teams. And there is 1 thing which I think is big issue in travian, even in T4. This is low deffense. I have been observing players, analysing game styles and I have found that most of players want to play offensive – they are normally ready to spend a bit more gold, and on each server there can be found some really great hammers (war hammers, WWKs…) Ofcourse I have seen great Anvils aswell. I don’t want to offend anyone by previous comment. There are some great anvils and without them it would be almost impossible to survive. But anyways most of Anvils are mostly nongold or low gold accs. Anvils are usually not so active (there are exceptions). Also I believe big problem is that you need much more deff than off troops to deffend. For example 500k big WWK with 15k catas can with ease zero WW with 2mio deffense. I am aware that 2mio deff on WW is low, normally deff is there something between 2-10mio, some big metas can even make up to 15mio. But on slow servers it is very rarely (specially here on .in domain). What I am trying to tell here is that you need hell lot of deffense to be safe. Even in midgame if 5 good hammers come at you even now there is no chances you can deffend your villa (if other villas are faked too…). So with troop merging deffending against such monster will be almost impossible. And yes I know everyone are saying that, and developpers gave some suggestions to make more balance. But I think all this suggestions are wrong. I believe the game is unbalanced even now. So if you just gonna restrict some mergings (with time, gold whatever..) This will still be huge boost for attackers won’t it? Hammers will be despite those restrictions be bigger than now. And this is a big problem.

    [B]Suggestions:[/B] If you really want to make this troops merging reality (which I believe we can’t stop no matter what we say) then I would alteast like to suggest some more improvements. If you gonna improve hammers (even slightly) the balance will be off the scale even more.. So I would suggest you to make some boost for deffenders. For example like troops merging will be possible what if you make deffence multiplier. This means you could multiply your deffense troops the same way you can merge them. That means with resources and (gold, which also I guess we can’t change 😛 ). You could find some multiplier (for example 1.5x) which will make game more balanced again. And this multiplier would be possible only for deff troops (spears, paladins, phalanxes, druids, praets, legos).. If this option is not good another idea is to give bonus for deffensive troops.. like they can buy with resources 20% bonus or something like that. This suggestions are only suggestions, and I am aware they are not perfect, so if anyone has any better idea please do share. Else I strongly believe something needs to be done to balance deff and off in this new feature.

    [B]2) Hammers[/B]
    This is the topic which has been discussed the most. But I stil believe no good solution was found for it. Major concern I have here is that hammers will be too big. I believe we will lose magic of the game which is in 1-2 huge hammers in each server. I won’t lose much time here as manny things has been said already. I will just say few points. Developpers saw most players have issue with that and they tried to make some proposals, which I believe again some are missed and few are good. So firstly let me tell few concerns regarding hammer:
    1: too big WWKs
    2: unchiefable hammers – you can merge all troops in capital and noone can ever chief your hammer.
    3: simming hammers peacefully in deep, settle few villas in center and wait till the end to merge troops there. That means whole round noone can come close to you as you are in safe area, then you can just change location and strike. Same situation with anvils, they can just sim in deep and forward troops in center – noone can touch them.

    [B]Suggestions:[/B] As said some of this concerns were already disscused and some good suggestions were given. So for hammers my suggestions are: make merging in capital impossible, make siege merging impossible, time restrictions are also good idea as it is already mentioned in community proposals aswell.. But 1 thing still remains unsolved those hammers must get some disadvantage aswell.. For example you cant merge troops if your village is under attack. I know everyone would just keep faking all villages in that case, so let’s say only attacks with hero are counted or something like that.. But with that they will with ease differ between fakes and reals.. You will need to fake with hero.. So this suggestion is not perfect, but I think something in this way must be considerred. Another suggestion I have is restrict are where you can merge troops.. For example troops can be only merged between villages in distance of 30 tiles. This will prevent players from simming in deep and merge hammers in center.

    [B]3) Gold[/B]
    Another topic which has been higly debatedn and some proposals are also there regarding this. So again I will be short here. It is simple rich players will just abuse gold to merge hammers and make monsters.

    [B]Suggestions:[/B] I know TG must earn money, so I understand they will give features which support more gold usage. Some suggestions where also said from TG regarding this.. but I belive until gold is there it will be huge boost for rich people. So now this is not a suggestions it is a request. We would like to play as fair game as possible. I understand some players gonna spend more than the others, and I know you need to earn. But please find a way to earn and keep game as much skill related as possible.. Let skills be in the fisrt place and not money.. Atleast try to make merging possible with like 75% resources and 25% gold for everyone.. And make some restrictions how much gold can be spent on merging. I know this is a very optimistic wish but atleast try and think something in this way.

    Thanks for listening and taking your time for us,

    Anze.

  18. Maybe, what the admins of travian we will need to think is: This change going to change travian to what?
    Think about this changes, think of the actual philosophy of travian (philosophy that place us where you are now, or this different type of gaming what make a big difference with other online website games) You heard about a travian player game compare with other game ? Maybe you can get more money, maybe te company going to get bigger. But maybe this is no the finish of travian, but maybe travian going to be a simple game, and not what we knew until now.

    Try and include news forms of games is excelent , and i think all of us think the same. But change all travian sistem… for what ? This change in the other version is okey. Do not use in all version of travian plis.

    Seba

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